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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 5, 2011 7:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: new Matrix, or a waste of time?

What we have here is a failure to communicate. Why is Hunter unable to properly provide a simple response to Cliff's point?
Cliff: Hunter, when you mix a matrix you're adding audience noise to good SBDs.

Monte: Cliff is a SBD lover. So I agree with what he says. At the same time, I'm an AUD lover, so I see it the other way around. A good matrix adds SBD dynamics and fidelity to good AUDs.
WtF! Why is Hunter Seamons "forcing me" to matrix my own tapes?

http://www.archive.org/post/343306/the-matrix-debate-with-a-html-demo
Grateful Dead - new matrix
RFK Stadium
Washington, DC
June 9, 1973

Pitch Correction:
-- SBD pitch and speed correction performed in Samplitude Pro ver 7.22
-- the tape speed difference between SBD and AUD reels is variable and it slews
-- some tracks were manually pitch-corrected into many segments
-- some tracks were pitch-corrected into two segments
-- some tracks were pitch-corrected in one segment
-- Resample Mode was used to perform pitch and speed correction
-- (I didn't get the pitch-correction perfect for every note, but it's worth a listen.)

Matrix Mixing:
-- track changes are seamless
-- sources fade-in and fade-out
-- remastered and rendered in Samplitude Pro VIP mode
-- AUD source is mixed -1.5dB below SBD source

Patches and Repairs:
d1t01 - Promised Land - AUD source fades in at 0:42
d1t02 - Deal - SBD right channel - parametric eq used to lower Garcia's guitar level - 3:35 to 4:05
d2t04 - He's Gone - AUD tape damage patched - 6:25 to 6:37
d2t06 - Truckin' - AUD missing due to reel flip - 8:08 to 9:03
d2t07 - Playin' in the Band - unable to match sources after 9:28 - SBD only after 9:28
d3t07 - Sugar Magnolia - SBD cuts out at 5:40; AUD only after 5:40

Tracking and Set List:
-- Notes from AUD and SBD sources list Set 1 / Set 2 alignments incorrectly
-- Tennessee Jed is the correct end of Set 1

Audience Source:
-- Taped, transferred, and remastered by Monte Barry
-- FOB center infield / between sbd platform and stage platform
-- Sony ECM 99 single-point stereo mic
-- Mic is hand-held on mic-stand shaft, w/arm raised up
-- Sony TC 2850SD portable stereo cassette recorder
-- Memorex 90-minute cassettes

Audience Lineage (shnid 91236):
-- MR cassette > Nakamichi 550 > Lexicon Alpha > 48 Khz / 24-bit > USB > Samplitude 7.22 > 44.1 Khz /16-bit

SBD Lineage (shnid 172):
-- S:MR > PCM > cassette > DAT > CD > EAC > SHN
-- Extraction and SHN encoding by G.S. Hamilton
-- Thanks to David Hollister for this beautiful show

running time is 3:24:52
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=550529

Set 1:
d1t01 - Promised Land
d1t02 - Deal
d1t03 - Looks Like Rain
d1t04 - They Love Each Other
d1t05 - Jack Straw
d1t06 - Loose Lucy
d1t07 - Mexicali Blues
d1t08 - Row Jimmy
d1t09 - El Paso
d1t10 - Box of Rain
d1t11 - Sugaree
d1t12 - Beat It On Down the Line
d2t01 - Tennessee Jed

Set 2:
d2t02 - Greatest Story Ever Told
d2t03 - China Cat Sunflower >
d2t04 - I Know You Rider
d2t05 - He's Gone >
d2t06 - Truckin' >
d2t07 - Playin' in the Band
d3t01 - Loser
d3t02 - Me and My Uncle
d3t03 - Mississippi Half Step
d3t04 - Big River
d3t05 - Eyes of the World >
d3t06 - China Doll
d3t07 - Sugar Magnolia (encore)


This post was modified by dead-head_Monte on 2011-12-05 15:08:50

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Poster: Germain Date: Dec 5, 2011 4:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: new Matrix, or a waste of time?

Monte, I attended the 6/9 show at RFK and sat maybe 10 yards diagonally left behind the sound board. This was a special show for me. My circle of friends had graduated from college the month before. Many had already scattered up and down the east coast but we'd all come together (about 40 of us)one last time for this show. I have to say your matrix does an excellent job capturing my sound experience of the day.

The proto wall of sound was awe inspiring, but from my position there was an echo/reverb effect that added to the color of the sound. In my opinion that was a positive. Maybe there were speaker towers behind me or the sound was bouncing off of the back of the stadium producing that effect. Which ever, you've captured it like I heard it. I do have to throw in this caveat though, this was the show Phil's notes burst from the speakers in brilliant colors.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 6, 2011 6:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: new Matrix, or a waste of time?

Yes, there were two auxiliary PA towers setup on the rear infield, about 20 or 25 yards behind the soundboard platform. I created an extensive web page on this forum that covers these June 9 and June 10, 1973 shows - me going there, being double-dosed, taping them, describing the taping equipment, the GD's sound system there, including pictures, etc. There's now some film of June 10 that surfaced a few months ago. Bud Styple released a 4-minute color 8mm silent film clip (home movie type). All this stuff is here, including the tapes:

http://www.archive.org/post/309958/june-9-and-amp-10-tapers-gauntlet-reveals-an-orgy-of-sound

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Poster: hseamons Date: Dec 5, 2011 6:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: new Matrix, or a waste of time?

Monte! I had a chance to check out your matrix and I think it's a great result. It really puts you "in there," so to speak, and the sound is much fuller than the straight SBD. Hmm, I did not mean to "not get back to you," but I think this project just did not lure me in at the time, for whatever reason. I do seem to recall my initial tests (the first time) did not enthuse me all that much, but I have often done matrixes based on second tests, despite my doubts, and having a little faith in seeing it through. I just have not gotten around to doing this one yet - partially because it was not the kind of sound I was looking for at the time, and I think because it did seem like it would be a particularly difficult matrix, as your experience with PITB seems to indicate.

Yet with all this matrix talk going down these days, although with much more limited time on my hands, I have mustered up some serious interest in several shows that I want to matrix, and I got one on docket right now that's making that old SPARKLE happen again, which is very refreshing. It's been, like, half a year or something since the last one, and I feel like I've lost touch with this creative niche. But now I think with all the time off, and a new feeling for more time to space things out, I will be giving the Work even more care and attention. I always felt a sense of urgency to make more - and more - and MORE, as there is so much more and so little time (although the 70's sources are beginning to wane), but now I am relaxing and not being anxious about getting it out the "next day."

Well, this has been a rant, but I get encouraged when folk share nice feedback, and I feel like that maybe I'm not "wasting" my time so much by investing so much time in this music I love a great deal, and the audio communities it generates. See you soon in matrixland!


JHS





This post was modified by hseamons on 2011-12-06 02:04:21

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Dec 5, 2011 6:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: new Matrix, or a waste of time?

Jubal, I'm happy to hear that you have some new projects coming along. Don't let the haters get you down. For every person who refuses to give your excellent work a chance, there are a hundred who greatly appreciate your time and efforts.

Even a few people I've met at various shows have brought up Hunter Seamons, when the topic of the LMA has come up. I've done some work with audio editing, but would never have the patience to do what you do, no offense, so I'm really glad there are folks like you who find it rewarding enough to put forth all that time. Keep up the fine work. These ears love that enriched deep sound you're able to add to a flat sbd. More '67-74' please :-)

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 11, 2011 6:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: new Matrix, or a waste of time?

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1973-06-09.117476.mtx.barry.flac16

rfk-stadium_taping_equipment.jpg

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Poster: cberg Date: Nov 30, 2011 9:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: new Matrix, or a waste of time?

Matrix Track Two is 46:24
This is a partial of Set 2 up
// cuts off at PITB

Man this sound great ...great Matrix....really captures it nicely!

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 4, 2011 6:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: new Matrix, or a waste of time?

Thanks for your comments. I decided to proceed with this Matrix. PITB was too complicated for me. I can't tell you how messed up all of these taped reels are. I purchased cheap cassette blank tapes to tape Saturday and Sunday at RFK Stadium in 1973. Then I had lots of problems with these old cassette masters when I did the transfers 35 years later.

PITB was too difficult for me to completely matrix without help. I couldn't match up the sources after 9:30. I was always getting lost in GD's intense jam. I decided to fade-out the AUD source at 9:30. Then I went ahead and pitch-corrected the rest of this show. This was a great project for me to vastly improve my pitch-correction and remastering skills using Samplitude s/w.

Yesterday I torrented a bit torrent for this Matrix at etree. I imagine it will soon hit GD's collection at the LMA. I deleted the MP3 tracks mentioned at the top of this thread.

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=550529

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Poster: rastamon Date: Dec 4, 2011 7:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: new Matrix, or a waste of time?

you should work with hseamons on the PITB, Imo, he's the Guru of MTX.

No use taking you to task for using cheap ass tapes and baking them for years in your car(!)that's the past.
Whenever I used tapes, I'd at least buy High Bias Tapes..and Metal-when I could afford it. Also, I never fast forwarded/reversed them. I'm sure you're better now! :)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 5, 2011 7:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious, albeit it trivial question. SERIOUSLY!

Rasta got me thinking: was I wrong headed all those yrs ago? Did I swallow a "myth", hook, line and sinker?

Here was the "way" I learned it: ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, when using high quality cassette tapes, one was to FF through the entire tape, then rewind it before usage. This was to eliminate all slack, and perform a "stretch elimination" (due to some slack being present in tapes not so processed).

Of course, someone like Monte might tell me, "no, it was done at the factory", but in the mid 70s we all did this in the Bay Area.

And, I can say with high quality tapes, stretched once, then twice (FF & back) prior to recording, could then be used for recording, and played any way the user saw fit without pitch/wow/flutter problems developing later. I can personally attest to FF through fav tapes many, many times, and PB was always okay.

Again, may have been completely wrong; and do agree with basic idea that any such efforts with old tapes (FF) would be problematic, Rasta.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 5, 2011 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious, albeit it trivial question. SERIOUSLY!

It's all about packing the tape properly onto the reels. Cassette reels were deployed inside cassette housings. The best way is to check for any slack build up is to insert a hexagon-sided pencil or a Bic pen into one reel hub. While holding back on the other hub by pinching it, you can spin the reels several rotations with the pencil. Then, repeat this, using the pencil in the other reel hub, and spinning the other direction for several rotations. As you're doing this, visually watch the tape reels and see if they look okay. If they're lumpy-looking, then you need to repack the reels entirely. FF all the way, rewind all the way back.

Some audiophiles would clean their audio heads, capstan shaft, and pinch roller after each playback of any tape.

Over the long term, if you didn't attend to the slack issues associated with playbacks, then the tape slack would build more and more with each playback. After a point, the tape would loop (fold) over itself as it packed onto the take-up reels. Now you have tape damage. Some cassettes get destroyed when they're played back with huge amounts of tape fold-over and defective tape packing.

Check out this Nakamichi LX-3 cassette deck for superior tape handling! I picked up one from Craigs List two years ago for $40. It has dual capstan motors and dual pinch rollers. Incredible prosumer playbacks! No looping or foldover with cassette tapes played back on this unit.
Naka_LX3.jpg

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 5, 2011 12:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious, albeit it trivial question. SERIOUSLY!

Great pic! I love these older decks, but suppose my tape days are long behind me (have all of them stored away).

Sounds like we were following a logical extension of what you describe, Monte, perhaps being too absolute about it without individually evaluating tapes. I defn recall doing the "pencil method" you describe as well--haven't thought of that for years...

Thanks, Rasta & Monte; fun going down memory lane on this stuff.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Dec 5, 2011 11:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious, albeit it trivial question. SERIOUSLY!

not to worry, I'm usually wrong. I guess the type of deck is important on stretching issues. I used a Mid-End "SONY KA1ESA Ceramic Tape Deck" It still works grate excep the trouble in finding a replacement for the worn down tape heads. I made a LOT of tapes! Did you have to replace the Heads on the Nakamichi? Do you know where to purchase new tape heads?

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 5, 2011 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious, albeit it trivial question. SERIOUSLY!

I had a full-blown service job done to my Nakamichi 550 portable cassette recorder in 1982, including new heads. It was brand new in July 1973. The rebuild job was done at Nakamichi's service center in Long Island.

Re: more about tape packing problems
If you kept tapes in your car's glove box, all bets are off from what I was saying about tape packing. Your car's glove box is a shake table for your cassettes. The reels of tape will loosen up, slacken up, and probably form some loops of tape. Over years of time, these tapes may become packed with many sections of folded-over tape. These tape sections should be manually repacked (if possible) using the pencil method I provided, and visually checked as you proceed. It takes time and patience. Try this rule-of-thumb for questionable tapes in your car's glove box: use my pencil-check method, FF for ten minutes of tape pack, do the pencil-check again, etc, etc.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Dec 4, 2011 7:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: new Matrix, or a waste of time?

I asked Hunter to matrix this show twice. The first time I asked him was 3 years ago. The second time I asked him was one year ago. Hunter never got back to me either time. Here's our discussion.

http://www.archive.org/post/343306/the-matrix-debate-with-a-html-demo

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Poster: rastamon Date: Dec 4, 2011 7:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: new Matrix, or a waste of time?

Tape Care: Store in cool dry area. Never fast forward or reverse them or leave them in the tape deck.

CD Care: Store in cool dry area. Never touch or pollute the recorded side. I have CD's over 10yrs old with nary a scratch or fingerprint.

Vinyl Records: Handle only by the edges. Soft brush off any dust and play on a turntable with only 3/4 Gram tracking weight. Store in Sleeve in a cool dry place.

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